Navigating Mid-Career Transitions with Clarity and Confidence

Welcome, everyone, to the ACC Tennessee and Latitude webinar. We have just opened the webinar, and so our attendees are joining. Before we get started, I just wanna, I’m Samantha Lunn. I am the executive director for ACC Tennessee. We’re so delighted to have Candice Reed with Latitude. Not only Latitude coming on as a sponsor this year related to career development, and supporting our new to in house initiative, but also having Candice present today with this virtual seminar. And with that, I will hand it over to, Candice. Thank you, Samantha. It’s great to be with you guys, today. I wish I could see all of your faces, but I know that particularly when we’re talking about career development and the possibility of changing jobs that most people, are a little more comfortable having a webinar that you can view in a private setting, and you don’t have to feel like you’re announcing to the world, that you’re looking. So, hopefully, everyone is comfortable, and I encourage you to use the chat box. Everyone will be able to see both your questions and your responses to my questions. So if you are a little uncomfortable about, identifying yourself as participating in this particular webinar, you may wanna rename yourself, you know, just use your first name or even message me directly, so that only the hosts can see your questions or your responses. But I am used to a lot of audience participation, when I give webinars and or excuse me, when I give live presentations. There’s a lot of q and a. And for this particular webinar, excuse me, I will be asking a lot of questions. In some sense, as I was preparing for today’s presentation, it felt like I was preparing for a coaching quest coaching session, which is something that I used to do, before joining Latitude, because there are a lot of questions that I will throw out to you to answer if not publicly, at least for yourself, because a lot of preparing to transition, to a new position or, even out of the practice of law, if you are considering retiring or semiretiring, retiring, a lot of that preparation involves asking yourself some questions and, landing on some answers that are gonna help you, help steer you in the direction, that you wanna go. So with that introduction, I am going to use a PowerPoint. I will probably share and stop share. So, I’ll be jumping in and out of the PowerPoint. We’ll see how that works. Hopefully, we won’t have any, technical difficulties. But if we do, again, use that chat function so that, I can see that you may not be able to see or hear me. I’ll assume all is good if nobody says anything. So just, by means of introduction, as Samantha mentioned, I am a member of Latitude. And for many of you, well, hopefully, many of you may know already that Latitude, is a legal services company that matches attorneys with employers, both in permanent positions and also in high end flexible talent or contract engagement. So we, work with attorneys day in and day out. Throughout the presentation, I’m gonna introduce you to some of my teammates, at least by virtue of their name and their picture, and, give you some additional resources that you can reach out to at the end of this presentation to ask additional questions or to seek additional help. But we work with job seekers, as, you know, as I said, day in and day out. We recognize that this can be kind of a scary conversation to have for some people, so we value confidentially. We take it very seriously. But the information that I’m going to be sharing with you today is, not only based on research, but also anecdotal on the job. This is what we see day in and day out. So, let’s get started, now that I’ve given you that context. This is the somewhat clunky part where I start to share. Okay. There we go. Hopefully, everyone can see that big, beautiful blue title page. This is a a seminar that is approved in Tennessee for one hour of general CLE credit. So this is going to be our agenda for the next fifty five minutes. We will talk briefly about the status of the current legal market. I’ll give you some insight from my perspective as to what’s going on. Right now, then we’re gonna turn the tables to you and help you identify your why or the meaning of work to you. I’m also going to introduce some signs of burnout just as a, a check to make sure, that you’re okay. Or if you’re not okay and you are experiencing burnout, maybe some things that you can do, to to seek help. Then we’re gonna talk about preparing for a transition, planning for a transition, and then executing on that transition. And throughout the presentation, I intend to give you, some, helpful resources that you can, check out after, after our talk today. So we’re gonna jump in to talking about the the the legal market. As you probably know, it is dynamic. It changes relatively frequently. I would say seasonally, if you will. We are coming out of a pretty hot legal market, at least in Tennessee or specifically in the Nashville area. We tend to lag behind slightly the national, average or the larger metropolitan area. So for example, if you see headlines describing the legal market out of New York or DC or LA or even Atlanta, know that Nashville may be a few months behind that. So what you may be reading in the headlines is likely to come into the Tennessee area, a few months later. So, we are experiencing a slowdown that is typical during times of uncertainty or change, which we are definitely in right now. So for those who may be watching this recording, after the live broadcast, we are talking today on March fifth two thousand twenty five. So with, the a new administration, we will often see employers, halt or pause, particularly permanent hiring. We don’t see that that economic uncertainty, impact the contract engagements or the flexible, work as much as we see it on the permanent side or the more traditional, job market. So we have seen a slowdown, from the last couple of years. We saw this, after or right at the beginning of the pandemic. And then in twenty twenty one, into twenty twenty two and twenty twenty three, we saw a lot of employers start to make up for lost time, if you will. And it was a pretty hot market here in Tennessee, a hot legal market in Tennessee for a few years. So it ebbs and flows, and that is something that we would expect. It’s not surprising. So, if you are fine if you are looking for a job, again, a permanent position right now, and you’re finding, that there aren’t as many opportunities as you were hoping for or expecting or you’re not getting the callbacks that you, have gotten in the past when you have been looking, know that we are in a little bit of a lull. I do expect that the job market will pick pick up once things settle. Now when are they gonna settle? I don’t know. But I will say that employers, particularly companies seem to adapt to change, pretty pretty quickly. Again, we saw this even with the pandemic, a global, event that we had not experienced at least in my lifetime. And so, I suspect, that we will start to see, hiring loosen up again, in a few months into the into the second, third, and even fourth quarter of twenty twenty five. So, pausing on, that or moving on from that conversation, again, I’m happy to ask answer questions, as they may come up or even after the fact if you wanna reach out to me directly. In fact, I’m gonna go ahead and put my email address in the chat box, just for your reference in case you wanna reach out to me afterwards. So now this is when I would like to hear from you if you are comfortable. I would love to hear your answers to this question. Why do you work? If you’re not comfortable answering the question in the chat box, I would like for you to think about it and answer it for yourself. K. I’m seeing answers come in, to contribute, to make a positive impact, presumably, in your community, to for the paycheck. Yes. Of course. To talk to other adults, I can appreciate that. You work to provide for your family, to feel to feel like you’re contributing, to something bigger or greater than you, to exercise your brain, to learn and to grow. So I appreciate all of you who answered that question. Now we’ll take it a little a little deeper. Why did you go to law school? Or if it’s more comfortable to think of this question in a slightly different way, why are you a lawyer? Why did you choose to be a lawyer? So it seems like some of you were, attracted to the law because of the, kind of brain work that it would require you to do would require you to do, as a lawyer. Yeah. I I I agree, Samantha. That is similar to me. I was, constantly told growing up that I would make a great lawyer. I think I’m not sure. I think that may have been a backhanded compliment, or some indication of how I like to talk back. But, yeah, that when I was kinda struggling to decide what I was going to do, once I decided that I was not going to teach, Shakespeare to high school, sophomores, I landed on going to law school, because several people had mentioned it to me, in the past as something where they thought it would be a good use or it would utilize my strengths. Yeah. Family members were lawyers. It seemed like a cool profession. It was something that you presumed would provide some financial stability, which is important for for many of us. You were introduced to it in undergrad, and, you didn’t want to go to medical school. So all all all great reasons, and some very familiar reasons for going to law school or choosing the law as a profession. I would suggest that your answers to the last to these two questions contain the meaning that you ascribe to your current work. So looking at them together, both why you chose this field and how you think of work, that can give you some indication of the meaning that you ascribe to your job, which is important. So, a a lawyer who, is no longer practicing law, Anne Bradford, is a, PhD who, formally practiced in a, large firm and now researches and writes on flow and meaning. And she’s written, a book, positive professionals creating high performing profitable firms through the science of engagement. I don’t think the book is just for firm lawyers. I do think that those of you who may be in leadership positions, within your, legal department would find a lot of value in this book even in just, like, the first three chapters. So I highly recommend it. But one of the things that Anne, discusses in her work is that work itself can be a common source of meaning. So many of us have other aspects of our lives that provide meaning, whether it’s our faith or our family, but for many of us, work also provides a huge chunk of meaning, and meaning is a critical component of overall life satisfaction and well-being. So meaning, it it is important. It’s important to identify that not just in the current job that you have, but also in the job that you may want, down the road or in your next, in your next role. Meaning fuels engagement, which is associated with profitability and also productivity. People who can tap into the meaning of their jobs tend to show better job performance, fewer mistakes, higher job satisfaction, more positive and sticky relationships with their coworkers. Again, for those of you leading teams, generating meeting meaning among your, colleagues and your team members, tend you tend to be rewarded for that with higher work effort, lower stress, lower alienation at work, meaning that you’re feeling engaged with the team, and then, thus, there is less turnover. Now how do you hope that others will describe you or view you either now, next year, five years from now, twenty five years from now, depending upon where you are in your career? If someone were to describe you as a lawyer or as a a professional, how would you like for them to describe you? Trusted adviser. We hear that a lot in the law. That’s kind of a loaded, title there. There’s trust, and there’s also advising. Oh, I I love that, Jeff. He made me feel better about the idea of working with lawyers. You want your clients to say that you were helpful, that you were inspirational. Excuse me. Your answers to this question can sometimes or I suggest give you insight into what your values are. And Anne talks about how much of the meaning that we derive from work is this it comes from when the the space or the opportunity when there is a good fit between our personal values, being inspiring, being trusted, being an advocate, being supportive, and the work that we get to do day in and day out. So when there’s an alignment there, there tends to be high meaning in the job. When there’s misalignment, then, obviously, that’s where you have, feelings of, you know, not being engaged, maybe not liking the work as much, etcetera, and that might be prompting your transition. So three, big ingredients, looking for that fit between values and work, coherence, making sense of the things, that you do or that you’re asked to do and how we fit into that, structure within our jobs. What’s my role within this company? And then purpose, your future oriented goals that give your life direction. What do I wanna do with my legal career? What do I want my legacy to be? And then significance, feeling like we matter to other people. That, often is not in our control. But, again, those of you who are leaders, that’s something to think about as you lead and manage your teams. Louise, I appreciate the the the comment that you just left in the chat box that, your sense of meaning, can really be shaken, or at least take on a different definition, to use a different word so that we don’t confuse the meaning that we’re talking about here, when, things go on that you might not expect. So you allude to the, the current situation happening with a lot of federal employees, and, I know that many people experience that particularly in corporate, roles where you may have mergers and acquisitions and unexpected, changes and layoffs and that type of thing. So, but identifying what you want the meaning to be, can be helpful in, thinking about what you’re gonna do next, I think. So here is just a quick list that we will dive into a little more deeply, but I wanted to go ahead and get this out, here at the beginning. So, here are some of my suggestions if you are currently contemplating a job change. First and foremost, get to know yourself and your motivation. We’re gonna talk about how to do that, but a lot of these questions that I’m throwing out here, today are part of that process. Be honest with yourself in how you answer those questions. Try to differentiate between your desires or your priorities, your wishes, and someone, someone else’s expectations. For many of us, I think, we grew up as people pleasers, and, we followed the rule book, so to speak. We did well in school. We got high grades. We behaved in class. We did well on tests, and we found ourselves kind of following a path that maybe we didn’t choose for ourselves, that someone else said, hey. Here’s a great path for you. We mentioned that earlier when we talked about why we went to law school. Some of us went to law school because someone else suggested it, not because we came up with it on our own. So as you’re contemplating a job change, think about what it is that you want and what’s important to you and where the line is between that and what other people might be expecting or what they say is important. Spend some time daydreaming. Most lawyers are very practical. In the beginning stages of contemplating a transition, let your creativity loose. Okay? Spend some time daydreaming, thinking about things that may not be that practical, but, just mulling them over, and and almost trying them on for size, if you will. Then research, and we’ll talk about how to do that, those dreams, make a plan, be brave, and execute. You’ll hear me, repeat, that bravery piece over and over. And I think for most lawyers, maybe for most professionals, or most mid career professionals, particularly if you do have a family, that you are responsible for supporting financially. Bravery comes in the form, or often comes in the form of change. Right? Because that’s hard. Most of us don’t like change. Even if we want it, it still is an an uncomfortable place to be and to get through. So, bravery can look like just taking the next best step for you. And then as you do leave, your jobs, you know, exit gracefully and don’t burn any bridges. And then, here’s the mom and me coming out. Make sure that you’re drinking water and gets getting sufficient sleep. I say that kind of as a catchall for taking care of yourself. Because particularly, if you are in a period of an unexpected job search, it can be really, it can rock your world, and it can be really difficult to both contemplate what you’re going to do for work next and also take care of yourself. But that taking care of yourself component will help you determine the next best step. So don’t don’t forget to do that. So why might you be contemplating a career change now? This is one where I’ll ask you to just answer this question for yourself. No need to put this in the chat. I don’t wanna out anyone. But some common reasons that I hear, attorneys tell me that they’re looking to make a job change. There may have been a change in priorities or a change in personal circumstances, maybe a move, maybe, a marriage or a divorce, maybe, you have decided to send your kids to private school and say there’s been a change in your financial, priorities where you need to make more money than you’re currently making in your current job. Often, it’s for career advancement. You may feel like you’ve hit a ceiling, in your current position and, you know, you’re looking at the general counsel who’s only, you know, three years older than you are and recognizing that they’re probably going to be in that seat for several more years, and so you may have to make a move out of your current company in order to reach your goal of becoming a general counsel somewhere. Maybe a desire for a more flexible schedule, fewer hours. Certainly, we hear that a lot at Latitude where people have, achieved a certain level of success in their careers, and they want to leverage that for more flexibility, more time off, etcetera. Perhaps you were terminated or laid off. Again, an unexpected job search has kind of been thrust upon you. One of the primary reasons, and this is not just anecdotal, but there’s research on this, that one of the the primary reasons that people will leave, jobs for another lateral move, if you will, is because they don’t like their boss. They don’t like their current boss or their current, colleagues or work environment. So a change of culture. And then, oftentimes, I meet with people when they are burned out, and the solution that they’ve come up with in that narrow space that they have available in the midst of burnout to think about solutions is, well, I just need another job. If you are in the throes of burnout, that may be a solution. It’s likely that your job is contributing, to that feeling of burnout. But it it also may be that there are things that you can do within your current position to address the burnout versus, looking for an entirely different job. Oftentimes, we will see someone who is burned out move from one job to another job, and the burnout just follows them. Now without going too far down this rabbit hole, because this is another CLE, are you burned out? Paula Davis is a former form former in house attorney. She was at Kohl’s for a number of years. She has since, gotten her master’s degree in psychology and pivoted to a career focused on resilience and addressing stress and burnout among professionals, attorneys included. And, she has a book called beating burnout at work, why teams hold the answers to well-being or something like that. That subtitle may not be exactly correct, but it’s a great book. I will say that her conclusion is that burnout tends to be a, individual problem that’s created by systemic or I’m sorry. Individual symptoms that’s created by systemic problems. So, again, kind of looking, at your current job, your current team, the company, particularly if you have some control over, how you are, managing your department. There may be easier ways to address the burnout than looking for a new job. If you are experiencing any of these symptoms, or I should say, if you were experiencing several of these symptoms over a prolonged period of time, then you may be experiencing burnout. This is not a season. I mean, I think all lawyers are gonna be like, well, I felt all of those at least once in the last thirty days. Right? This is if you’re feeling multiple of them them day in and day out. So, you know, things that may be new too. For me, when I was practicing in a large firm, I started to experience burnout. I wasn’t sure I didn’t know. I couldn’t name it. I didn’t know that’s what it was. But looking back in hindsight, I can see things like every curveball being a major crisis. I remember standing in line at the grocery store one evening after work. And like it does, the line next to me was going much faster than the line that I had chosen, the checkout line. And I didn’t make a scene. Don’t worry. But internally, I was I was getting madder and madder. With each person that was, like, getting ahead of me in this other line, I was getting so I I I was getting so, I’m sorry. I was looking at the chat there for just a minute. I, was getting so frustrated that I was losing what I consider to be billable minutes. Right? And by the time it was my turn at the cash register, I was livid, not at the cashier, just at the circumstance that you know, like, I remember having the thought, well, I could’ve, you know, spent the last point three on the beach. Like, that’s the equivalent of vacation time for me, standing in this grocery line. That’s an example of how burnout can make you, kind of rattle you or destabilize you. Even, like, everyday occurrences are this big deal. Getting sick more frequently, not being able to relax during your off time, so, like, not being able to sleep well for a prolonged period of time, not caused by other things. Having a sense of inefficacy, meaning that you feel like there is absolutely nothing you can do that’s going to address the problem. Feeling disengaged and checked out, you can’t let go of your perfectionism. And overall, it just feels like there are way too many demands on you and not enough resources. And that’s where some systemic or team changes can come in and potentially help, address the burnout among the team members. If you are able to get sufficient resources, add to your team, or get some temporary help in there, to help during a a really busy time, that is something that can address the burnout. If you find that you are really struggling with burnout, I would suggest that, you know, TLAP, the Tennessee lawyers assistance program, is available to all, Tennessee lawyers. And, you can look them up online at TLAP dot org and have a conversation with them, and they’ll direct you, to someone who might be able to offer you more, mental health support if you need it. They’re not just, for, you know, drinking or drug problems. Mental health is is big on their list of priorities. So here we go. Preparing for a transition, the self assessment and research that’s so critical. This is my colleague, Anne McKnight, who is, one of our recruiters at Latitude. And and I asked all of our recruiters on the Tennessee team, to answer the question, like, how would you advise someone who’s in the middle of their career and considering a transition? And Anne said, as a new attorney, reality and your short term goals, you know, to land your first real attorney job, to earn enough money, to pay back student loans, etcetera, those are often the driving forces behind your early career choices. And that may put you on a certain path, but then ten to fifteen years into your career, those driving forces have likely changed. So in other words, it may be time to pivot, ten, fifteen years into your career. So whether you want more money, more freedom, a new path altogether, as she said, it’s time to figure out what twenty twenty five you needs and wants versus first year lawyer you needs and wants, and then align, your job or your goals to those priorities. Great advice. So what are what’s the self assessment that I’m talking about? Here are a number of questions to help you identify your goals and priorities. This is kind of the coaching, coming out here where, if you wanna take a screenshot of these questions or I’m happy to share, the PowerPoint slides, with any of you who may wanna reach out to me after the the presentation. What do you expect or want out of work or your job? What do you want to accomplish through work? What are your current priorities? Is it, paying for a mortgage? Is it paying for private school? Is it saving for retirement? Is it being able to coach your kids’ little league, team and leave work every day at three o’clock? Do you have any current restrictions? And by that, I mean, you know, are you the one responsible for pickup, where you need to, consider that restriction when it comes to finding a new position. You know, you need to look for jobs that are going to allow you, to leave work at three thirty in order, to do, to pick up your kid from school. Or for example, if you need to be home, you’ll need to look for whatever reason, you’ll need to look for jobs, that allow for remote or at least hybrid, schedules. Do you anticipate that these priorities or restrictions will likely change soon or at some point in the future? So think about how long that particular, restriction, for example, is going to last. Are you at the beginning of this stage or at are you near the end? Oftentimes I will meet with people whose children are about to graduate from high school and go to college. And so they may need a little bit of flexibility over the next few months or year. But then they’re like, after that, I I no longer am going to need that flexibility. So I don’t necessarily want to find a job, based on that alone because that restriction’s going to be going away. Strengths. There is a ton of research out there that says that you are more likely, based on, the Gallup research, six times more likely to feel engaged with your work or in your job if you have the opportunity to utilize your strengths on a daily basis. Now strengths in this, context are not necessarily the skills that you have developed through consistent practice over time. For example, brief writing or even, you know, some management skills, are not the same as strengths. When we talk about strengths, we usually are talking about, those parts of our personality that are pretty static. There are a number of inventories and assessments that, help you identify what your strengths are. I would suggest the via inventory of strengths is a really good place to start if you’re interested in going, down this rabbit hole a little bit after we leave, and I would encourage you to do that. I mentioned the via because it is available to take for free, whereas some of the inventories can top cost upwards of hundreds of dollars. The strengths finder, is also relatively inexpensive. You basically have to buy the book, strengths finder two point o, and then it gives you a code to take an assessment online. But the via as well as dozens of other self assessments are available on authentic happiness dot org. That’s a website maintained by the University of Pennsylvania Positive Psychology Center. So you’re contributing to science if you sign up, for an account there. All of your results will be anonymized and then, part of ongoing research, not just in strengths, but in the various, research, projects that, that are captured on that particular website. But again, strengths, we know is highly correlated or using your strengths is highly correlated to not just engagement, but overall work and life satisfaction and well-being. So it’s really important to figure out what your strengths are, excuse me, and then, you know, identify jobs that will allow you to use those strengths. Preferences. Many of well, all of us have certain preferences. They’re not necessarily innate parts of our personality. They’re not skills that we have developed over time. It’s just what we’d like to do or the environment in which we’d like to do it. One of the, easiest examples is, knowing whether you are an extrovert or an introvert. Knowing that preference can give you some guidepost, if you will, or some information as to what jobs you might enjoy most or what positions you might enjoy most. So for example, if you do lean towards introversion And if you’re curious about this, Susan Cain, another lawyer turned author, wrote a book a few years ago called Quiet, which has an assessment, in the book, to help you determine extroversion introversion scale. If you per have a preference for introversion, that means that you get your energy from working solo, for having opportunities and time and space for deep thought or deep work. Whereas someone who prefers extroversion may get energy, by talking to other people. So an introvert might might prefer to work from home, whereas an extrovert might prefer to work in a in an open office, for example. What about your current job do you, love? What energizes you? What is it that you do that you’re like, oh my gosh. I wish I could do more of that. And what do you do that kind of depletes that energy from you that you wish you could change? If it was just the two of us, one on one, this is where I would be giving you plenty of time to think about these questions and to answer them. But today, I’m just going to get through them pretty quickly so that we can get the questions out there, and you can do the the hard work on your own, after the hour is done. Here is some homework that might help you if the questions if you find it hard, to answer the questions on your own. So, I have suggested this to to many people, many of whom were my coaching clients when I did that, ten years ago or so. Describe your three most satisfying work experiences. Provide as much detail as you can in those descriptions, you know, where you were, what you were doing, who you were with, and then look for, answers to some of the questions that I’ve, mentioned earlier today, within your descriptions of those, work experiences. Separately, identify what sets success or describe what success looks like for you right now, what it might look like for you five years, ten years, fifteen years from now. Not what success looks like for you when you first got out of law school. Okay? As Anne mentioned, Anne McKnight, our priorities likely change throughout our career and so should our goals to align with those priorities. There is a, another, exercise. I actually use this one with my students. I teach a thriving in the law class at the University of Tennessee College of Law. So this is an exercise that I use with second and third year, law students to imagine their future. Again, pick a period of time, ten years from now, fifteen years from now. For them, I usually suggest that it’s twenty five years. Those of you who are mid career, I would suggest going a little lower than that. But assume that everything is exactly the way that you want it to be. What does that look like? Write it down. Look for signs that may help you identify what work would be meaningful, where your values and the work that you are doing align, to create that meaning based on that exercise. And then, another similar exercise, perhaps slightly more, morose, is to write your own obituary. We did a short version of this, earlier in the presentation when I asked you how you would want others to, describe you. So, writing your obituary David Brooks is an an author, a few years ago came out with a book. I believe it’s called the second mountain. And, he suggests that instead of building a, resume based on your prior experience, that you, build a resume bay based on the legacy that you would like, to leave for the world or in your profession. Now as someone who helps lawyers get jobs, I can tell you that building the legacy resume is not necessarily gonna get you an interview, but it can help you, again, assess where your priorities or what your priorities are and help you identify, what your next job might what you might want it to be. Okay. Once you have done some self reflection and assessment, then start to do some research. Make a list of, you know, five or ten people whose jobs, you think you would like, or attorneys who you admire. And then, you know, don’t just limit it to what you think you might be able to do. I’ve had people do this exercise, attorneys do this exercise, and, I vividly remember one attorney including among her list being a, a, a preschool music teacher and and and owning one of those franchises that does like music classes, like mommy or daddy and me music classes with like young children, that was on her list. That is not the job that she is currently in, nor the one that she chose to pursue, but it gives you, an opportunity to do some of that daydreaming that we talked about earlier. Think about why those jobs appeal to you. And then perhaps most importantly, talk to people who do that work, who are in those jobs to figure out for real, you know, what they do all day. So for those of you who might be contemplating, moving in the direction of becoming general counsel, what did general counsel do? I know that most of you work with them or work with one, at least one, but your perception of what they do might not be all inclusive of what they actually do. So talk to a general counsel if you’re not comfortable talking to the one at your current company. You know, there are plenty of people that you can talk to, throughout this ACC Tennessee network, that can be invaluable resources. And then, how do those jobs meet or align with your objectives and your priorities? And don’t be afraid to be wrong. Right? Like, you might have thought that being general counsel was the next step for you, but then once you started talking to other general counsel, you recognize, wait a minute. This is this is not at all what I thought the job was and nor is it, something that I wanna do. So, you know, don’t be afraid to be wrong and also pivot. Any friends, fans out there, every time I use the word pivot, I think of Ross just screaming pivot pivot. Okay. I’m showing my age here. Here are some resources that I’m familiar with because I co host, the leveraging latitude podcast. We’ve had a number of people, be guests on our shows who have talked about their own career trajectories or, you know, what they look for in terms of, interviewing, you know, candidates for new jobs, pivoting from, one path, say in house to something totally different, like legal recruiting, being on both sides of the interview, both as a candidate and also as an employer, how you can develop your career. This is our most recent one with Stacy Bratcher. How you can develop your career in house to create opportunities for promotion in your current, within your current company. So another one of our recruiters at Latitude, Robin White says, when considering a mid career transition, reflect on your daily tasks and note what energizes you versus what drains you. See, we’re saying the same things. It’s difficult to be successful and happy in a role that doesn’t align with your interests or passions. Once you understand where your strengths and energy lie, focus on intentionally, authentically, and strategically. Oh, there’s so much wrapped up in those three words, strengthening your personal and professional connections. Because once you know, the path you want to pursue, those connections will also often be the source of your next opportunity. I, when I was getting, a master’s in psychology after I had practiced law for a few years and gone into legal, recruiting and placement, there was a professor, who said the key, the key to a good life is recognizing that other people matter. And this was before, the black lives matter movement or the blue lives matter movement. He was simply recognizing the importance of positive relationships, not only for your well-being. You know, obviously positive relationships feel good. It feels good to be in communion with someone else, but they also can be a tremendous source of, of help. You know, not just in a when you’re looking for a new job, but also, and encouraging you, along that path or again, kind of letting you know, hey, this is what I do as a general counsel, or this is what I now do as a law firm lawyer. Somebody who went from in house back into a firm. We’re seeing that trajectory a lot more than we used to, you know, ten, fifteen years ago when I first started in this business. Okay. We’re gonna go through these next two, groups pretty quickly because I know or next two topics pretty quickly because we’re coming up on the end of our time together. But again, if you wanna reach out to me, or any of the recruiters that I’ve introduced to you here, we’d be happy to have this conversation with you, offline. So planning for a transition. So once you’ve identified kinda what your priorities are and maybe some of the roles, that you think would be a good match for that those priorities you want to plan for the transition. Identify stretch and smart goals. I have a worksheet if this is something that you really wanna, you know, play with. I have a worksheet that I’d be happy to share with you if you wanna email me after the presentation. Stretch goals are those big, you know, seemingly outrageous or really ambitious goals that are not going to be accomplished with just a little bit of effort. Like, these these these are the big ones. Okay? And then the smart goals, which I suspect most of us are somewhat familiar with, those are the more incremental goals, if you will, that are gonna help us achieve the stretch goal. So with the smart goals, and that’s an acronym for specific, measurable, achievable, realistic, and timeline. So as you are writing out what your goals are, check them against this acronym, make sure that they’re specific, measurable, achievable, realistic, and timeline, and that there is a specific timeline associated. It’s easy for me to put it within the context of, say, physical health. So for example, a stretch goal might be to run a marathon where, the smart goal that you have that’s going to help you achieve that goal is, you know, work out or run one mile every day or one mile for five days a week for six weeks. And then the next mark goal might be run three miles a day, five times a week for the next three months or something like that. Those are the the incremental goals that are gonna help you achieve your bigger goal. Oops. Sorry. What would it take to make it happen? Do you need more, or a different education, or, you know, a master class or a CLE or something like that? And then think about what’s stopping you. You know? What are you afraid of? What are the challenges that you anticipate, and can you work around them? You may not be able to. I mean, for example, if it’s economics or location or family, constraints may you know, it may be like, okay. Right now, I can’t do that. I would love to work twenty hours a week, but right now, I need a full time job in order to pay for private school tuition. So just identify those challenges, so that you can assess whether they are truly insurmountable or whether it’s something that you can push through. Carol Dweck, is known for her research on mindset either, most of us have either a fixed mindset or, a growth mindset. And a growth mindset is often identified as, like, the power of yet. So I can’t do that yet, but then you recognize there are things that I can do that will help lead me to that next thing or better prepare me for that next job. I’m not ready for it yet, but I can I have within my control, resources and ability to, to get there over time? Whereas a fixed mindset is like, oh, I just, you know, I’m I I guess I’m just not meant to be GC. And I keep using that as an example. I recognize that not everyone’s dream position is being a general counsel. It may be being retired. So, I’m just using that as an example. Execute a transition. When my daughter was in preschool, every morning when I would drop her off, I would remind her to be kind and be brave and to stay curious. And so that kind of became our family motto. I’m gonna suggest that this is something that you say to yourself, kind of this affirmation to remind you, to be kind to yourself during this process, to be brave, and to also stay curious. You know, if you acquire new information, allow that to come in and consider it. Don’t necessarily land on something. And, again, never reassess it for years. You know, it’s like, okay. When I got out of law school, I said I wanted to become a general counsel, so I’m not even gonna question that goal for the remainder of my career. Cynthia Moon is another one of our recruiters in Tennessee. Be honest about what your priorities are and assess any opportunities through that lens. If you think you might have a match, don’t let fear of change become a roadblock. We see this a lot. Some tips for executing on your plan to transition. Obviously, I’m biased, but I think you should talk to a recruiter. It doesn’t have to be one of us, but we are very connected to, I mean, recruiters generally, especially local recruiters or the recruiters in the area, the location where you may want to be. Those folks know a lot about jobs, about companies, about not only pay, but culture. And we love to talk to attorneys who don’t already have one foot out the door, who are just beginning to think about their job search because we can often help them, consider opportunities that they may not have even known exist. Clean up your LinkedIn profile. This is your personal storefront. It is your brand. Also other social media, if you have, if you have been, outspoken on, certain issues where there may be two sides, know that employers will look at your social media and perhaps, your vociferous opinions on certain issues, might be something, that sway them. Or certainly for those of you who are far more, far more, if you’re younger until you’ve been using social media, like, even since you were in, you know, in school, just take a look that you don’t have, like, you know, pictures of yourself in a speedo or something, that someone, a potential employer might find, unappealing, let’s say, or maybe out of line. Tailor your resume for the job that you are applying for. Resumes are not one size fits all. Okay. So know that you are going to have to spend some time with your resume. Every time you apply for a job, don’t let failure or the fear of it keep you from putting yourself out there again and again and again. Many of us found our early legal careers, relatively easily. Maybe because of our performance in school, for example, that may not be the same that same experience may not follow you throughout your career. And don’t, don’t be afraid of that. It’s it’s it’s okay, if you don’t get the interview or if you get the interview and you don’t get the job, it’s practice and it’s going to make you better for the next interview you do. Again, practice interviewing, you know, grab a friend, have them interview you. If you’re working with a recruiter, maybe ask for a practice interview and then assess the opportunities that come your way wisely. What I sometimes see is people attorneys spend so much time on the front end identifying their priorities, priorities, their values, their strengths, you know, drafting goals, practicing, interviews, looking at, you know, revising their LinkedIn profile, etcetera, etcetera. And then when it comes to an opportunity, it’s like they forget all that work that they did to, identify what was gonna be the right next step or right next job for them. It kinda all goes out the window Cause they’re like, oh, well this may be the only job offer I get. Or, you know, the money’s pretty good here and they don’t think about anything else that they had just weeks or months ago identified as being really, really important. So, make sure that you’re not, you know, giving up on yourself right before you reach the finish line. And then, someone asked if I recommend any resume builder websites or software. I do not I don’t have access to that. I will or I I don’t have an answer for that. I will tell you that there has been a trend in recent years to for resumes to be more pretty, for lack of a better word, that is not, that’s not going over well in the legal field. So, you know, lawyers are old dogs, in in some respects, and they tend to like to see employers legal employers tend to like to see, you know, like, reverse chronological experience. I wouldn’t put your picture on your resume. I wouldn’t, you know, make it pink and purple with cursive script. You know, remember you’re not applying to be like a, you know, TikTok influencer. You’re applying to be a lawyer for the most part part. If part, if you are applying to be a TikTok influencer, then you may want to be a little more trendy when it comes to your resume. Here are some drivers of attorney work satisfaction and loyalty. Again, just make sure that you’re keeping these in mind when you’re assessing opportunities that are, presented to you. But you need to come up with your own list. This is just what I often see. And then, finally, you know, here are just kind of my concluding remarks. Again, don’t let others define success for you. Success for you right now may look like working ten hours a week for a nonprofit. Or it may look like beating the CEO of a publicly traded company. Whatever it looks like for you, let that be the goal, not someone else’s version of success. And as you are going along with the process, make sure that you’re taking care of yourself, the people, your people, so to speak. We talk about that in our family, you know, like our friends and our loved ones. Look for the good things. I mean, looking for a new position can sometimes be, a test of patience and also, fortitude. Make sure that you’re recognizing when good things happen too. You know? Oh, my resume got picked up for an interview. That’s really positive. Whether you get the job ultimately or not, the interview itself shows that someone was interested in learning more about you and your experience, and then tap into all of your available resources, caveat. That does not necessarily mean that you’re passing your resume around every attorney that you know, that can come back to bite you and it’s not usually effective. But, you know, talk to other people, who are involved in ACC, ask them about their jobs, if they know of any openings, talk to your local recruiters, listen to podcasts, engage with your outside because oftentimes your outside counsel may know more about openings, than you do because you’re relatively isolated within the company that you’re currently working for, whereas they may have many clients, some of whom might be looking. I think, that’s it. I’m gonna just land here. Actually, I’m gonna land here, which is my contact information. If you do want to reach out to me, I would love to have, a conversation, and follow-up to this presentation. Thank you so much.