Welcome to Leveraging Latitude

Transcript

Tim Haley 00:00

… something about like, for karaoke, for me anyway, I like that-

Candice Reed 00:04

Are you going to get philosophical about karaoke?

Tim Haley 00:06

A little bit, a little bit, about music.

Candice Reed 00:09

It looks like it. Yeah. Okay.

Candice Reed (00:13):

This is Leveraging Latitude: Cultivating a Full Life in the Law, and we’re your hosts, Candice Reed-

Tim Haley 00:20

… and Tim Haley.

Candice Reed 00:21

Please join us on our journey as we discover how to leverage the hard work of becoming a lawyer to achieving success and leading a rich and fulfilling life in the law.

Candice Reed 00:37

Hi everyone, this is Candice Reed and I’m here with Tim Haley.

Tim Haley 00:42

Hi, everybody.

Candice Reed 00:42

Tim, hello.

Tim Haley 00:44

How are you?

Candice Reed 00:44

I’m good. And this is the Leveraging Latitude Podcast, Cultivating a Full Life in the Law. What does that mean to you, Tim?

Tim Haley 00:54

Oh, man. It means being fulfilled, being happy every day, loving coming to work, and being productive.

Candice Reed 01:00

Yeah, I think what that means is different for everybody.

Tim Haley 01:06

That’s right.

Candice Reed 01:06

And we recognize that our legal community has a rich diversity of personalities, and people with different strengths and different goals, priorities, different practice areas.

Tim Haley 01:22

Backgrounds, everything.

Candice Reed 01:24

Backgrounds. And so this journey that we’re starting together with all of you who are listening is all about learning as we go.

Tim Haley 01:36

That’s right.

Candice Reed 01:37

Right? And finding those opportunities for further engagement and new learning, and cultivating new relationships and adding to that fullness of both a law practice and a life.

Tim Haley 01:53

Yeah. Candice, I’m really excited. This is my first ever podcast, so it’s-

Candice Reed 01:58

You know we had to do it, right?

Tim Haley 01:59

I know, right? We did. It’s good.

Candice Reed 02:01

Everybody’s doing it, so it was our turn.

Tim Haley 02:03

This is one… For different groups that I’ve been on, I’ve been trying to get a podcast together in one way or another for like five years. And I’ve actually taped a pilot before, but it didn’t go anywhere, sadly. And now I’m just pumped. This is exciting.

Candice Reed 02:19

Dare I ask what that pilot was?

Tim Haley 02:19

It was… I don’t want to give away the name because I’m still trying to revive it, so I don’t want to shoot myself in the foot, but it’s-

Candice Reed 02:25

Is this like the band that you started back in college?

Tim Haley 02:29

I didn’t start it. I never was in a band. I was never in a band. You were in a band, weren’t you?

Candice Reed 02:32

Stay tuned for Episode 3 when Tim plays his saxophone.

Tim Haley 02:37

Well, you can join me. You could play sax too, so it’s good.

Candice Reed 02:41

I prefer the mic, but go ahead.

Tim Haley 02:44

Oh, yeah, lead singer? Is that it? Yeah? That’s good.

Candice Reed 02:47

Or backup. I really don’t care where I stand on stage.

Tim Haley 02:51

That’s awesome. That’s great. Yeah, no, we were talking about, what was it? Something nerdy. It was a nerdy science thing, but it was fun.

Candice Reed 03:01

So you’ve outed yourself as our nerdy science guy. You have a background in environmental law, right?

Tim Haley 03:08

That’s right. I was an environmental attorney for almost 14 years. And yeah, science and stat. I can geek out on that stuff all day, so that’s fun.

Candice Reed 03:18

For anyone who’s just about to turn off the program, we will not be talking about that stuff in this podcast.

Tim Haley 03:27

Not today. Maybe sometime down the line.

Candice Reed 03:29

Yeah, a little further down the line.

Tim Haley 03:32

Candice… You guys can’t see it. Candice is, she’s upset with me right now.

Candice Reed 03:37

I’m not upset. I’m just glad that I have some editorial discretion over this podcast.

Tim Haley 03:44

Yes, absolutely.

Candice Reed 03:45

Don’t worry, folks. We’ll be talking about more interesting stuff.

Tim Haley 03:50

Yeah. Well, and your background, Candice, you were a bankruptcy attorney for a while as well, right?

Candice Reed 03:55

Yes. I did practice bankruptcy law for a few years. Started out in commercial litigation at a large firm here in Nashville, Tennessee, and then went into the legal recruiting and placement industry for a few years. And then went out of business and back into the law, and practiced in-house for a few years before helping to start Latitude. So it has been a unique journey, I think. Certainly not one that I charted out when I was a third-year law student, but one that I have fully enjoyed. And I will say what I often tell people who ask me about the different jobs that I’ve had or the pivots that I’ve made in my career over the last 20 years or so.

Candice Reed 04:42

Once you make one change, or once you take that first leap out of your first job, it becomes a lot easier. And so for me, the various opportunities or the various directions that I went in were usually a matter of what my priorities were at that point in my life, both professional and personal, who I was going to be working with, the type of work that I was going to be doing, and whether I thought it would be interesting. I am someone who wants to enjoy the work that I am doing, and oftentimes that enjoyment comes from the people that I’m working with, and oftentimes it comes from the work that I’m doing. And I’ve just had the real privilege of working in a lot of areas, from commercial litigation to ethics and compliance, and now helping other lawyers thrive and find the job or the position that best aligns with their own goals and priorities. It’s truly been a blessing.

Tim Haley 05:47

Yeah, Candice, she’s being modest too. She’s also an adjunct professor, so there’s literally no… I can’t think of a segment of the legal industry that she hasn’t been a part of for a period of time. And Candice, you’ve been a great resource for me. I like it when you tell me that I’m headed the right direction, but more often than not, I really like it when you tell me I’m going the wrong way. So appreciate everything you do.

Candice Reed 06:10

Tim, I feel like you’re buttering me up for that podcast that you mentioned earlier, for that nerdy science podcast.

Tim Haley 06:18

I wouldn’t be above that. That’s probably exactly it. Eventually we’ll get more editorial discretion. Is that it? Directorial discretion? I don’t know.

Candice Reed 06:25

Yeah, I don’t either. This is our first time on the mic, right?

Tim Haley 06:28

Words are hard.

Candice Reed 06:29

We’re learning as we go. Yeah, words are hard. Words are hard. It is something, though… I mean, I’m kidding you. You know that I can totally nerd out too. It’s actually one of my favorite things to do.

Tim Haley 06:44

I know. Yeah.

Candice Reed 06:44

That’s what we’re going to do a little bit with this show, right? We’re going to talk to people who we think are interesting. Talk about current topics that are relevant to most legal professionals. Talk about the things that we like and that we think others might like. And luckily, attorneys and the legal industry or profession at large gives us ample pool of people to talk to and learn from. It’s just a really rich culture of people and ideas and talents and interests.

Tim Haley 07:24

We’re going to have fun too. We’re going to make sure that everybody that listens has a good time and maybe even learn something along the way, hopefully. But not too much because we don’t want this to be too much like work. So hopefully it’s something that we have a good time with and our guests have a good time with, and the listeners have a great time with as well.

Candice Reed 07:41

Yeah, we recognize that most of you are probably listening while you’re on the treadmill or eating your lunch. If you have any ideas or topics that you’d like for us to talk about, we hope that you’ll reach out to us and share those ideas because we do want this to be a collaborative effort, not just between Tim and I, but with all of you who are listening as well.

Tim Haley 08:06

That’s right. I joke, and in all seriousness, I’ll talk to anybody anytime about anything. So feel free to reach out, and if we can get through Candice’s screening, we can maybe have an episode too.

Candice Reed 08:20

There are lots of holes in that screening, so I think that-

Tim Haley 08:25

Well, clearly. I mean, you let me in, so we’re good.

Candice Reed 08:31

Oh, my goodness.

Tim Haley 08:31

Well, all right, so this is our first episode. Format’s generally, Candice and I will talk and introduce our guest. We’ll interview the guest, and then come back out and preview what our next episode is. Because we’re trying it out because we’re new, we’re going to interview each other. And I’m not going to lie, I don’t have any questions yet.

Candice Reed 08:51

You’re scared, aren’t you?

Tim Haley 08:53

I am. I don’t know-

Candice Reed 08:54

I can see the fear in your eyes right now.

Tim Haley 08:56

I don’t know what Candice is going to ask me. She doesn’t know what I’m going to ask her. I don’t even know what I’m going to ask her yet, so this should be fun. So Candice, go for it.

Candice Reed 09:03

Okay. So Tim, you’ve already told us that you practiced environmental law for a large international firm, for 14 years. So why don’t you tell us a little bit about your life outside of work right now?

Tim Haley 09:22

Okay, this is fun. So I have three kids which range from 4 now to 10. And if you’re doing the math, that means that last year when everybody was shut down, I was locked up with a 3-year-old for about six months. And life outside of work for me, when I was practicing work-life balance, was something maybe I thought about at the end of the month. Maybe it was every end of the quarter, like, “Oh, I need to spend more time with my family,” or, “Oh, we got a vacation coming up,” or whatever. I need to work a little less or I need to work a little more, depending on the time of year or whatever. But man, last year, work-life balance was like minute to minute.

Candice Reed 10:05

There was none, right?

Tim Haley 10:06

Yeah. It was minute to minute. It was like, “Hey, Emily, I got to get off the phone right now because my three-year-old is running around the neighborhood naked and I have to go get him.” That happened. That’s a lot. My three-year-old, he’s four now, but-

Candice Reed 10:20

Yeah, that’s a lot for the first episode, Tim. But continue.

Tim Haley 10:25

It happened, but can’t change the past.

Candice Reed 10:28

This is the snippet that they’ll play at his rehearsal dinner one of these days.

Tim Haley 10:34

That’s right. So no, that’s what I’ve been doing a lot of in the last year and a half. I coached my seven-year-old’s baseball team. We had a game the other night, another one every Saturday. He’s playing soccer. My 10-year-old’s in swimming and choir, and she takes violin too. So we got a lot. The hours between like 6:00 and 8:00 at night are pretty much fully booked every night.

Candice Reed 10:58

So in addition to being a family guy and spending time with your children, what do you like to do outside of work?

Tim Haley 11:08

So I have been a high school swim coach since 2002 at different high schools here in Indiana. I help them out. I really just like helping people. I mean, that’s why I got into the law in the beginning. I swam competitively in college, and so I know a little bit about it. And the first year… I started coaching when I was in law school, and I started coaching because I didn’t know anything about going to law school. And for at least two hours a day, I was like, “Okay, I know what I’m doing.” That’s how I got into it. The weird thing is, eventually I went to law school. I got pretty good at it and knew what was happening. But I ended up getting so much more out of… I thought I was giving my time, but I ended up learning so much more about how people learn, how people react to each other and what motivates people. I mean, I got more out of it than I gave, and I feel a little guilty that I get to do it.

Candice Reed 12:02

That’s fantastic. I also have a seven-year-old daughter, and every night at dinner we talk about our wow moment of the day and our pow moment, which visually I think is like a slap across the face. But you get the idea, the good and the bad. So what has been your wow moment professionally, and what has been your pow moment?

Tim Haley 12:31

Well, in the last year, we are in the wow moment right now. This is fun. I’m having a blast. The coolest thing I ever did professionally, I was on a trial team for a white collar criminal defense case, and we went all the way to trial and got a defense verdict. So it was successful, long, a lot of hard work, but that payoff moment at the end where we kept innocent people out of jail was, I don’t know that it can get much better than that.

Candice Reed 13:03

Yeah. That moment’s packed with meaning, right there. And I think that for so many of us, that’s where we get a lot of satisfaction in our career. It’s one of the reasons a lot of us went to law school was to help people.

Tim Haley 13:16

That’s right.

Candice Reed 13:16

What about the pow moment? The in-the-ditch moment? We’re sharing the good, the bad, and the ugly here.

Tim Haley 13:23

Candice, there’ve been so many of those. I will tell you this. So the very first… This is embarrassing, but it’s rookie mistakes stuff.

Candice Reed 13:33

Oh, then tell us, please.

Tim Haley 13:34

Yeah, absolutely. So the very first brief I filed, maybe I’m a month in, maybe I’m two months in. So I’ve got responsibility for this document that’s going to be filed in… It was filed in administrative court, but it’s the one that I probably reread and proofread 500 million times and did the spell check on it over and over and over again. Well, I turned it in, and one part of the brief that I didn’t proofread was the caption. And in the caption, I had misspelled my client’s name.

Candice Reed 14:03

Oh, no.

Tim Haley 14:05

Which was fun. So I got to go over to the court clerk and apologize. And big lesson I learned that session is, the two people that you always want to be friends with are the clerks in the court and the people working the door. And if you’re friends with those people, it can save you a lot of grief. So luckily, I caught the mistake fast enough and early enough that it was same day, to just call over and swap out the correct version. But yeah, that was a pow moment.

Candice Reed 14:34

But there was a lesson at the end of it. So in some ways, I don’t know that it was worth it, but there was meaning in that too, right?

Tim Haley 14:43

Yeah. I think the reality, I mean, outside of missing jurisdictional deadlines, at least in my practice, you could fix most mistakes. You try not to make them, you try really hard not to make them. But when you do, when they happen, for me, it was, okay, acknowledge your mistake, admit it, and fix it.

Candice Reed 15:00

Absolutely.

Tim Haley 15:00

And doing those things that, yeah, you’re going to look stupid every now and again, but I mean, it happens, and I’m used to it by now.

Candice Reed 15:08

Well, that’s the one thing that I always tell younger lawyers, or lawyers who are just starting out, as the lesson that I, like you, learned the hard way. But it was probably the best lesson that I learned, which was, don’t be afraid to admit to your mistakes because they usually can be fixed. And recognize that there are people who want to help you succeed. And so when you do make a mistake, there are usually those people who are waving life preservers and welcoming you into the lifeboat, and kind of helping you out of trouble. So that’s great. So what are you learning now? What are you doing right now that’s exciting to you?

Tim Haley 16:00

So yeah, I mean, I’ve been at Latitude now 15, 16 months, something like that. It’s still new to me, so I’m still learning stuff every day. And what my favorite part right now is… I was in the weeds of a legal practice for 14 years, and you can only see so much when you’re down in the day-to-day. And what I’m doing now, it almost feels like I’m watching the whole industry move. And so I’m having a great time and I’m still learning about, okay, cause and effect and ripple reactions for different… If one firm, for example, raises salaries, what does that do across the market? I mean, that’s an easy example. If one firm decides to buy up another firm, how do the other firms react? And if one company moves their headquarters, what do the other companies in town do about that? So it’s been really fascinating and fun. I’m not yet an expert, and I am really enjoying learning all of those things on the macro scale.

Candice Reed 16:57

Well, we’re glad you’re here. So Tim, I have one last question, and it may be the most important one that I ask. If you had walk-on music, you mentioned that you help coach your kids’ baseball team-

Tim Haley 17:12

Gosh, that’s great. Yeah.

Candice Reed 17:13

… what’s your walk-on song?

Tim Haley 17:16

Music to me is something that I really enjoy, and it’s interesting how… I mean, I got into it kind of late in life. Everyone has their favorite stuff in high school, and then you go to college and your world opens up more. And I’m just getting into whatever I can get my hands on right now, all types of music, all genres. Today, if I was walking up today, if I was trying to hit a home run today, I would walk up to Don’t Stop Believing by Journey.

Candice Reed 17:48

That’s awesome. I’m pretty sure that that is my husband’s go-to karaoke song.

Tim Haley 17:56

Oh, it is. Absolutely. Oh, that’s a great question. Guess what I’m asking you?

Candice Reed 17:59

Oh, no, I totally set myself up for something really, really off the wall.

Tim Haley 18:06

So it’s my turn now and I get to ask the questions. Candice, on a normal week, what’s the favorite part of your week?

Candice Reed 18:15

The favorite part of my day, which happens every night, is when I put my seven-year-old daughter to bed. And we have time before she lays down where we read a book together. My husband is there too. So the three of us pile into her bed, and right now she’s really into Nancy Drew and the Clue Crew. So we read about Nancy Drew and her attorney father and all of the mysteries that three girls solve. And then my husband tells her goodnight and leaves, and I lay down with her, we turn off the lights, and for the 20 minutes or so that it takes her to nod off to sleep, we may talk. She may tell me something that she wouldn’t normally tell me during the day, but it’s a little easier when the lights are off and it seems like it’s our little secret cocoon.

Candice Reed 19:15

I’ll sing to her. I’ll sing the three songs that I’ve sung to her every night practically since she was born, and she’ll drift off to sleep. And in those last five minutes or so, I may just be laying there next to her thinking about the day, almost a meditation of sorts, counting my blessings. And it gives me time to take a breath and relax before I jump up and finish whatever work I need to finish before I go to bed. But I really enjoy that time. And sometimes I’ll catch myself trying to rush through it, like singing the songs a little faster to try to get the whole routine done with, because I’m trying to finish something before the end of the night or working under a deadline. But I try to remind myself that that is precious time and that soon enough she will not want me doing that, or probably anywhere around her for a while. So that’s my favorite time of the week is every night when I get to do that with her.

Tim Haley 20:21

That’s fantastic. So in your legal career, and we talked about it earlier, you’ve been everywhere, you’ve done everything.

Candice Reed 20:29

Well, not everything.

Tim Haley 20:30

I know.

Candice Reed 20:33

I still have a few things on that bucket list.

Tim Haley 20:35

There you go. Who have been the biggest influences for you along the way?

Candice Reed 20:40

That’s a great question. I came from a family of teachers, and I actually started out of law… I’m sorry, not law school, out of college teaching. There was no one in my family who practiced law for me to emulate. When I went to law school, I was one of the students in that first year class who still had no idea what a tort was, right? Let alone how in the world we were going to talk about it for an entire semester.

Tim Haley 21:12

Right.

Candice Reed 21:13

So I went to law school without that example or mentor. So I would say initially my inspirations or my teachers were my mentors. And I’ve had several throughout my elementary, middle school, high school, college, and law school career. In college, I had really close relationship with Dr. Jack Reese, who was the former chancellor of the University of Tennessee, and he’s the one who encouraged me to go to law school in the first place. When I attended the University of Tennessee College of Law, there were a number of professors who inspired me. Doug Blaze, who at the time was the leader of the legal clinic which is, I believe, the longest running legal clinic in the country, was a big influencer. There was a case, my first day of clinic, I was paired with Kyle Eiselstein, who would ultimately be, not just my friend, but one of my colleagues at the law firm that we both started working at right after graduation, Miller and Martin.

Candice Reed 22:29

And we were in a room of about 20 other students, and Professor Blaze and Professor Janice McAlpine walked in the room and said, “Okay, we have a really interesting but difficult client, a mother who has been accused of felony child abuse for brandishing a knife on her daughter. There are mental issues at play here. And she’s been a client of the clinic for over a year now as she sat in jail waiting for her trial because she can’t pay her bail, and we need volunteers.” And Kyle was a young father, and I was… Well, I was just who I am, and thought, “There’s no way I want that case,” right?

Tim Haley 23:23

Yeah.

Candice Reed 23:24

“That woman sounds horrible.” I was making judgments without even having met her, which that in and of itself was a good lesson not to do that. And so everyone else in the room, every other student in the room raised their hand and volunteered for this case except for Kyle and I. And we sat there looking at each other like, uh-huh, no way. We do not want a child abuse case.

Tim Haley 23:46

And you got it.

Candice Reed 23:48

And so a few hours later, we found out we had been assigned to that particular case. And it really was not just a career-changing moment for me, but a life-changing moment about how there not only are two sides to every story, but every person is this unique and complicated mass of emotions and intentions and best laid plans and strengths and weaknesses, and just a combination of all of it. And it’s really hard to work with or advocate for someone without knowing all of that.

Candice Reed 24:30

And so of course, once I met this woman and understood the situation and read the file, and saw that it was a butter knife as opposed to the shank that I was thinking of when the case was first presented to me, all of those details started to inform a much clearer picture of the case. And we were able to work with the prosecutor to get her mental health treatment as opposed to letting her continue to sit in jail untreated. And that was a huge moment, and I credit Professor Blaze and Professor McAlpine for recognizing that that was a lesson that I needed to learn, at least, in order to be a good lawyer going forward. And even though I didn’t practice criminal law, it was still a good reminder and continues to be a good reminder today, as I meet with people, that you need to go a little more deeply than just what’s on the surface in order to really help.

Tim Haley 25:26

Yeah, I don’t have a moment like that, but over time, you recognize the power of compassion. And being a lawyer, and it’s kind of counterintuitive because there’s always somebody who wants to be the loudest and the strongest and the best or whatever, but a lot of great work is done on the ground, and it’s not really done with yelling, it’s just done with compassion.

Candice Reed 25:49

Yeah. And I know I’m being long-winded here, but there are just so many people that I would name, in terms of who shaped my career. Some of my earliest partners, Bill O’Brien, Neal McBrayer, who now sits on the Tennessee Court of Appeals. In-house, it was my first general counsel, Michael Sheridan. My second general counsel, Lisa Peerman. In the legal services industry, I had the opportunity to work under Jane Allen at what was then Counsel on Call for many years, and she taught me quite a bit about this industry and also about taking chances. So there are a number of people who inspire me and who have taught me a lot of things throughout my career that I’d love to give a nod to. Ross Booher is on that list too. Did I mention Ross? He’s Latitude’s CEO. He’s a friend, and a law school friend at that. So sometimes it just goes to show that you can be inspired and mentored by peers, not just people who have been doing this a lot longer than you.

Tim Haley 26:56

Yeah, Ross, I mean, he’s become one of my best friends too because we talk daily. And I can’t thank him enough either, so that’s awesome.

Candice Reed 27:03

I didn’t say he was a best friend. Let’s just be clear about that. No, I’m just kidding.

Tim Haley 27:08

Did you hear that Ross?

Candice Reed 27:09

He’s a very good friend. I’m totally kidding. Actually, sometimes it surprises me to think about that I’ve known Ross and have had a relationship with him longer than almost anyone that I talk to on a daily basis. Much longer than my husband, even. I’ve known Ross for over 20 years now.

Tim Haley 27:31

Wow.

Candice Reed 27:32

It’s interesting to think about that, and to even see pictures of us from law school. Oh, my goodness.

Tim Haley 27:38

I was going to say, you guys were law school classmates, right?

Candice Reed 27:39

Yeah. There’s one where I was wearing denim short overalls. I’m not even sure that was in style in the ’90s.

Tim Haley 27:47

No, it wasn’t. I was there. I was there. That was not in.

Candice Reed 27:53

Oh, I thought I was so cute. Oh, anyway. Hopefully no one ever sees that picture.

Tim Haley 27:59

All right, well, last question. You turned it on me, so I’m going to turn it on you. Your go-to karaoke song. What is it?

Candice Reed 28:06

Ooh. My go-to karaoke song is different than my walk-on song, for sure.

Tim Haley 28:12

Oh, yeah? Okay.

Candice Reed 28:13

So the theme music that I would walk around to would be Happy by Pharrell. I know that’s not-

Tim Haley 28:20

That’s a great song.

Candice Reed 28:21

… a unique or very interesting choice, but I love that music. It became popular when I was pregnant for my daughter, and so that has just always held a special place in my heart. And also anything by Stevie Wonder. But my go-to karaoke song is Carrie Underwood’s Before He Cheats.

Tim Haley 28:44

Oh, okay. Okay. That’s a good one.

Candice Reed 28:44

Yeah, it’s a good one. It’s a good one. And it always goes over really well in bars.

Tim Haley 28:50

I believe it.

Candice Reed 28:52

Everybody’s got that one.

Tim Haley 28:54

I don’t think I’ve done karaoke since law school, but college and law school, we’d go to a karaoke place every now and again. Usually a bar. Hopefully I was 21 all the times. But my go-to karaoke song was Gloria Gaynor. I Will Survive. It’s fun.

Candice Reed 29:09

Of course it was. That’s exactly what I would’ve thought, but okay.

Tim Haley 29:13

It’s a blast. It’s something about, for karaoke, for me, anyway, I like that-

Candice Reed 29:20

Are you going to get philosophical about karaoke?

Tim Haley 29:22

A little bit. Little bit.

Candice Reed 29:23

It looks like it. Yeah. Okay.

Tim Haley 29:25

Karaoke, I like it when a guy sings a girl song or a girl sings a guy song just because you know it’s not going to be anywhere close to the original, so it’s more entertaining for me.

Candice Reed 29:35

Okay. And next up on Leveraging Latitude Podcast, Tim Haley sings I Will Survive. So stay tuned, folks.

Tim Haley 29:43

We’re not going to… No, well, maybe. Not now.

Candice Reed 29:48

To turn it back on the podcast, first of all, I’ve really enjoyed learning more about you. I had no idea that you taught or that you coached high school swimming. I knew you were a swimmer, but I didn’t realize that you still taught or coached. Sorry.

Tim Haley 30:02

It’s a lot of fun. No, it’s teaching, but honestly, it’s more learning. It’s good stuff.

Candice Reed 30:08

That is good stuff. We have lots of good stuff coming up on this podcast. I believe our next episode, we are going to talk about burnout, something that all attorneys have at least flirted with, if not experienced themselves. Probably know someone who has. Paula Davis, who is a former lawyer turned resilience expert, who’s recently wrote the book Beating Burnout at Work: Why Teams Hold the Secret to Well-Being and Resilience, will be joining us for our next episode. And later down the road, we’ll be talking to some of our colleagues about the current job market and other interesting topics that hopefully, as you said, will be fun and will teach us all a little something along the way.

Tim Haley 31:02

Thanks, Candice. I’m looking forward to it. I can’t wait. This has been a dream come true for me, so look forward to seeing everybody next episode.

Tim Haley 31:12

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